Please quote things within their context, it does help.

You are the one who began talking with a hostile and demeaning tone - “Is this so difficult to understand?!”, “Don’t defend him just because he’s Muslim!” (oh there’s a false assumption u made about me) when you didn’t even fully explain what the guy did until 2 replies later!

When you talk to a person in a hostile and accusatory tone then don’t expect a friendly discussion.

A bientôt!

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5246599

I just mentioned some of the books I read about the Middle East to indicate I do have a general knowledge about this topic, since you frequently drop hints that I don’t know much about this topic.

“Bravo” to you for reading a book by Theodore Herzl, if that’s the tone we’re going to take.

You said:

I do know that some people can’t always differentiate, so you see I tend to say things either from experience or from knowledge, I rarely make assumptions.

You are making a lot of assumptions about me, which is why I’m getting frustrated. You should reread what you write.

You said:

…don’t lecture me on my country which you clearly no NOTHING about…

Ha! This is not the first time I’ve tolerated a demeaning tone about my country so that I could learn about another, only to receive a backlash in return.

I know more than “nothing” about your country, although I never claimed to know a lot, and I don’t believe I was lecturing you, which would be absurd. However, I have tolerated a tone from yourself as one who has a very great knowledge of the the U.S. - and oddly, of myself, whom you have never met. You seem to have an uncanny knowledge of the kinds of people I can recognize, or not, and the books I have not read, or not.

This need people have for coming off as confident and “expert” when they are not certainly gets in the way of someone simply trying to learn about the world. I had hoped this would go better.

Au revoir.

Rihab, I think you are responding to your idea of Americans in general rather than to my actual statements.

…

You’re not the only one who has done this to me in my life, but it’s something I find frustrating.

LOL! Done what to you? This is a discussion, either calm down or don’t bother participating.

I think it is obvious that terrorism is politically motivated. If “John Smith” shot those six women, we’d have to know his motivations, wouldn’t we? If he had no political motives, perhaps he was just crazy, he’d simply be a murderer. If he said he perpetrated this shooting as a protest against Israel, yeah, then he’d be a terrorist.

Ummmmmmm… please re-read your comments regarding this event and let me know EXACTLY WHERE you mentioned that he was doing this as a protest against Israel because as I am aware this is the first time you make ANY mention of it.

The KKK was a racist organization, and the dynamics of their actions were and are different from those of Muslim terrorists.

All this really isn’t that difficult to understand is it?

As far as I understand, a terrorist is someone who terrorises other people’s lives; the KKK did that to blacks, Al-Qaeda does that to Americans, so I can’t see why one would be called a terrorist and the other not.

Is that so difficult to understand?

I’ve read a few histories of the Jews and Israel, including one by David ben-Gurion. When I earned my first bachelor’s degree in history, I took two classes in Middle Eastern history.

Bravo.

Why do you assume I would not be able to tell the difference between blacks and Arabs with “softer hair texures, facial features are a little different, a somewhat lighter skin tone…” You seem to make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions.

No not really because, I have been to many countries and have met many people of many backgrounds and I do know that some people can’t always differentiate, so you see I tend to say things either from experience or from knowledge, I rarely make assumptions. Also, the reason why I used the word “generic” was because these characteristics are not always included in every single Arab Sudanese. E.g. Someone may have really dark skin but have soft textured hair, someone may be light skinned and have African features, so there is no single collection of features that characterises us, but the differences are more generic in nature.

That Asian Times article was wrong. I found this New York Times article, in which the first paragraph reads:

The Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah surprised Israel with a bold daylight assault across the border on Wednesday, leading to fighting in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and at least eight killed…

-13 July 2006. Greg Myre and Steven Erlanger.

and your point is??

Brian, do you actually read over what you write? You quoted something to me that said the language of Sudanese legislators is English then quoted the paragraph where I say that the the media oversimplifies the problem..

Exactly what is your point?

Also, legislators in Sudan use Arabic, I actually laughed reading that they use English, it’d be like me saying that legislators in America use Spanish. The native language of people in the North of Sudan is Arabic, the government has been overwhelmingly dominated by Northerners since our independence so the notion that they use any other language is quite frankly ridiculous. I mean, if you heard the average Sudanese speak English, you’d know how ludicrous that statement was.

I would appreciate if you could give me a link to that Economist article. I read the Economist somewhat frequently and I will write a letter in if that statement was made.

Finally, regarding the “Shame of being Sudanese” comment, (which I guess was an attempt to “get me back”) I actually do agree with it because I do reject the practices of my government and do find them extremely shameful. I won’t gloss over the actions of my government nor will I pretend that Sudanese are perfect people, because I don’t believe that there’s any chance of us improving our ways if we don’t admit our mistakes.

That being said, I will object to inaccurate reporting of what happens in Sudan because like I said from the very first reply on this issue - the government will crush any rebellion even if those rebelling are Arabs. There are rebellions in Darfur, there was a 50yr rebellion in the South, there is a rebellion in the East of the country (a region that is also dominated by Arabs) and there have been rebellions inside the capital Khartoum against the government because they have made life for every Sudanese a living nightmare - the only people that benefit from this government are those that have become members of the ruling National Congress Party and they are a minority. Everyone else be they Arabs, Furs, Bejas, Dinkas (I wonder if you even know who they are) suffers. So for the media to portray the situation as though every Arab is living the high life while everyone else starves, is inaccurate, discriminatory, and completely neglects facts.

I do not support this government, in fact I also believe governments that preceded this one have had a hand in causing many of the conflicts that face Sudan today and I do believe it is a great shame for every Sudanese that this country has not yet fulfilled its potential to become an extremely economically powerful country given the fact that it is completely self-sufficient in natural resources. However, I WILL NOT and WILL NEVER support distorted versions of the Sudanese conflict because misinformation only complicates problems, and as a Sudanese I care to see my country’s problems resolved.

So don’t lecture me on my country which you clearly no NOTHING about, and talk to me as though I enjoy seeing my countrymen killed and enjoy seeing my country in the state that it is in. If you care to know about Sudan and if you truly “care” about seeing our problems resolved then go read about it and when I say read I don’t mean Google “Sudan”. I mean read it’s 6000 yrs plus of civil history (yeah! believe it or not we did have a civilization, and a great one at that), understand the nature of our conflicts, then after you’ve thought long and hard of what works best for my country then you may come and calmly discuss it with me.

Not every African problem can be solved by throwing some food from the sky and Live Aid concerts - I said it once and I’ll say it again:

The world’s problems are a little bit more complicated than “Good vs. Evil”.

…local African Muslims resented the discrimination and neglect that they suffered at the hands of the Arab Muslims in Khartoum. The rebellion was brutally suppressed by the northern government, using its mounted Arab militia, the janjaweed, as its proxy killers. At least 180,000 people are estimated to have been killed in Darfur between 2003 and 2004. A ceasefire was signed a year ago. But now, once again, killings and expulsions have restarted.

…the Sudanese government has done almost nothing to help or co-operate with the already under-equipped AU force that is supposed to enforce the ceasefire. Worse, the government has totally failed to carry out its obligation, under the ceasefire, to disarm or rein in its dreaded janjaweed. These militiamen massacred thousands of civilians during the war, and are now continuing to do so.

It seems to me there should be an article here titled “The Shame of Being a Sudanese,” no?

Or, perhaps, in all honesty, “The Shame of Being Human.”

Today, as I read another article about Iraq, I wondered why the Kurds were so prosperous and peaceful in the north, while the Shiites and Sunnis were still bombing the crap out of each other.

For some people, I think, the grudge is more important than their own children. For other people, their children are more important than any grudge.

Don’t get me wrong, the famous Hatfield and McCoy fued in the US went on for over a decade. For them, the grudge was more important than peace.

The first language used by the legislators is English, but everything is translated into Arabic, an acknowledgement of the cleavage in Sudanese society between black Africans and Arabs.

-1 December 2005. “It’ll do what it can get away with” [the Sudanese government]

Rihab, you said:

It’s an oversimplification to sum up the problem as Arabs vs. Blacks, I mean everyone is black in Sudan, different shades of it but we’re all African at the end of the day regardless of whatever ethnic mixtures we have in our blood. Take a look at the “Arab” president of Sudan, tell me if he looks white or black to you?? The problem with American media, is that it over-simplifies problems into x vs. y, I mean the world’s problems are little bit more complicated than to be spoken of in comic book terms of good vs. evil.

The Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah surprised Israel with a bold daylight assault across the border on Wednesday, leading to fighting in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and at least eight killed…

-13 July 2006. Greg Myre and Steven Erlanger.

Americans have gone a little crazy and seem to think that Arab/Muslim = terrorist

You’re not the only one who has done this to me in my life, but it’s something I find frustrating.

I think it is obvious that terrorism is politically motivated. If “John Smith” shot those six women, we’d have to know his motivations, wouldn’t we? If he had no political motives, perhaps he was just crazy, he’d simply be a murderer. If he said he perpetrated this shooting as a protest against Israel, yeah, then he’d be a terrorist.

The KKK was a racist organization, and the dynamics of their actions were and are different from those of Muslim terrorists.

All this really isn’t that difficult to understand is it?

I’ve read a few histories of the Jews and Israel, including one by David ben-Gurion. When I earned my first bachelor’s degree in history, I took two classes in Middle Eastern history.

Why do you assume I would not be able to tell the difference between blacks and Arabs with “softer hair texures, facial features are a little different, a somewhat lighter skin tone…” You seem to make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions.

Also, I’m not Muslim and I don’t understand how you deduced that I’m defending him by calling him a murderer?? My point is that, every since 9/11, Americans have gone a little crazy and seem to think that Arab/Muslim = terrorist, which is insane. I remember, an Austrian friend of mine who was born in Iran (he’s fully Austrian, blue-eyed blond, but was born in Iran but never actually lived there!) anyway, when he went to get a visa for America from England they caused him so much hassle just because they saw that the country of birth was Iran!! If that isn’t discrimination taken to an insane level I don’t know what is.

lol! :grin: Are you trying to get me to put my pic up? j/k. Well, the generic differences is that Arabs would tend to have softer hair texures, facial features are a little different, a somewhat lighter skin tone… hmmm, I don’t know, just general differences like that.

On Lebanon, the BBC report says the same thing, if you scroll down to the first day covered and click on the link “Hizbollah seizes 2 Israeli Soldiers”, it states the same sequence of events.

Yeah, you’re right it can be traced back to 1948… or even 1895 when Theodor Herzl (founder of political Zionism) first proposed the creation of a Jewish state as a solution to “the Jewish question” - his words not mine. You should read his book, The Jewish State.

Peace?? I doubt anytime soon.

Think about gangsters and the dynamics of their world. Are gangsters innocent people? Or do they have designs to subvert the law and frequently use violence or the threat of violence?

I am calling Naveed Afzal Haq a terrorist because his actions fit the description of terrorism. He walked into a community center and began shooting randomly, hitting six unarmed, unsuspecting women, one of whom was pregnant, one of whom has died. Why do you protect and defend this coward? Simply because he is Muslim? This is partisanism. Loyalty no matter what.

Yes, there is a difference between murder and terrorism, do you deny this difference?

Thanks for your clarification of the Arab militia. Although I suppose it would be helpful for me to see many examples, because I find myself trying to imagine how everyone looks. You said they are all black, yet you can tell the difference by looking, so there are some physical differences.

Re: the current conflict:

I have found conflicting reports of the initial events of 12 July.

Here’s the one from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5179434.stm

However an Asia Times article supports your version:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html

…that Israeli troops were caught in Lebanon by Hezbollah, took two soldiers, then Israel responded, THEN came the Katyusha rockets.

I’ll read up more on this. Look at more sites.

However, in a way the events of 12 July are moot, and events must be traced back further; i.e., Hezbollah took the two soldiers because Israel is holding Hezbollah prisoners, etc., and so on and so on. I’m sure it could go back to 1948.

Ah, it tires me. Why can’t they just make peace?