Means nothing

11.28.06 @ 3:59 am

Remember how many similar polls, before last palestinian parliamentary elections, gave Fatah the lead only for Hamas to trounce Fatah in elections. take palestinian polls with a grain of salt.

kerr

11.28.06 @ 10:46 am

If Fatah needs to succeed, it needs to go back to the way it started. First get rid of the corrupted elements, second pay more attention to the social work as it did when started. Finally, recruit new blood that are more open.

mo

11.28.06 @ 11:57 am

the only reason palestinians turned to hamas was because fateh blew it … and now that hamas blew it they turned back to fateh … do you see where i am going with this?

battoot

11.28.06 @ 3:18 pm

mo, hamas did not blow it as you say. sorry but Palestinians are not as dumb as you think. they know who is starving them and who is killing them. if any, fatah will fail even more miserably if elections are held today. remember it is fatah that keeps intercepting money coming from the outside to palestine, its arab governments who order their banks not to send money to palestine, it’s egypt’s mubarak that keeps exposing tunnels.

Nas

11.28.06 @ 6:23 pm

the numbers are actually soft in my opinion and are likely to be much higher.

without financial support the hamas government has essentially collapsed. i give it credit though that it didn’t literally sell out its ideology for the sake of getting paid and it’s likely to pay the consequences. but even if it did receive funding i’d bet most of it would be spent on more fire-crackers. ideology is useless without infrastructure.

palestine desperately needs to remain secular for the sake of palestinians. the rise of islamisism in the territories is likely to be the worst thing since…well…israel.

abbas is waiting it out until support returns his way and if things calm down he’ll probably call a referendum. he has to pick his moment wisely though because at this point in time, picking a wrong moment will take him and palestinians to a point of no return and the potential for a civil war will become very real.

i hope that moment comes soon.

mo

11.28.06 @ 7:39 pm

battoot … easy on me … i’m pro-hamas btw
lsn i agree with you … hamas did not blow it … they were never given a chance to blow it or not.
but the fact remains … the palestinian people are no better off under hamas than they were under fateh … i’m not sayin it’s the fault of hamas … i’m just saying hamas promised but did not deliver … the reason why they were unable to deliver is beside the point i think

Hamzeh N.

11.28.06 @ 8:42 pm

Whatever comes out of this, is whatever should have come out almost a decade ago when the first Palestinian elections were held and Hamas chose to stay out.

This is not about Islamism or secularism as much as it is simply about strategizing.

Nas

11.29.06 @ 7:50 pm

Hamzeh, how do you figure?

Rihab

11.30.06 @ 11:00 am

This is not about Islamism or secularism as much as it is simply about strategizing.

Strategizing is simply carrying out a long-term action plan to accomplish certain goals, and in politics, these goals are founded on ideologies - be it Islamic, secular or any other… so what you said is, in a way, a contradiction in terms.

Iman

11.30.06 @ 3:21 pm

I don’t know what Abbas is waiting for actually, he hasn’t really lost much support…it’s clear that the people want an end to all the misery ensued since Hamas took over. Back in June, a poll showed that some 75-80% of Palestinians in the territories support a referendum, which of course is opposed by Hamas.

Hamzeh N.

11.30.06 @ 6:45 pm

Strategizing is simply carrying out a long-term action plan to accomplish certain goals, and in politics, these goals are founded on ideologies - be it Islamic, secular or any other… so what you said is, in a way, a contradiction in terms.

Actually, your words: “be it Islamic, secular or any other” exactly illustrate my point, which is that this not an issue on the level of what “ideology” you use, but what “strategy”.

Nas, I don’t know if that explained it, but I think “ideology” and “strategy” are not as tightly coupled as most muslim politicians like to believe and therefore I was just expressing my opinion in that Hamas could very well be doing the same things that a Fatah government would be doing without having to compromise its Islamist political platform or agenda, in the long run.

Rihab

12.1.06 @ 9:22 am

Actually, your words: “be it Islamic, secular or any other” exactly illustrate my point, which is that this not an issue on the level of what “ideology” you use, but what “strategy”.

Nas, I don’t know if that explained it, but I think “ideology” and “strategy” are not as tightly coupled as most muslim politicians like to believe and therefore I was just expressing my opinion in that Hamas could very well be doing the same things that a Fatah government would be doing without having to compromise its Islamist political platform or agenda, in the long run.

??

Hamas has an Islamic ideology, and as a result its goal is to create an Islamic Palestinian state, and so given its ideology and goal, part of its strategy includes not recognizing the Israeli state. Fatah has a secularist ideology, and as a result its goal is to create a secularist Palestinian state, and so given its ideology and goal, its willing to recognize the existence of an Israeli state and so, as part of its strategy, is willing to engage in negotiations with an entity it recognizes.

How can strategy and ideology be separated since one directly influences the other?? And how do you “use” an ideology?? People follow ideologies since ideologies are how we view the world and therefore shape what path we “follow”.

The problem with “Muslim politicians” (I’m assuming you mean Arab as opposed to Muslim) is that they generally do not have a long-term strategy because they have no set ideology (unless we consider “how do I secure my grip on power” an ideology), therefore, their policies do not shape circumstances but are instead short-term reactions to immediate circumstances. However, if you mean Muslim politicians, in reference to Hamas, their problem is their ideology, in my opinion.

Hamzeh N.

12.1.06 @ 4:35 pm

given its ideology and goal, part of its strategy includes not recognizing the Israeli state.

Not necessarily, and as a matter of fact, I imagine that not everyone in Hamas will necessarily agree with this assessment.

How can strategy and ideology be separated since one directly influences the other.

They can’t be fully separated and that’s why I said “not as tightly coupled as some would believe”.